Previously, I taught that iodine and boron, in particular, detox fluoride.
Copper, iron, zinc, manganese may detox fluoride.
Additionally, silica and calcium and magnesium.
And also, curcumin and tamarand.
There is shockingly little information online on how to detoxify from fluoride. Few people recognize that iodine and boron are reported to detoxify fluoride. Some people have actually written, “There is no known way to detoxify fluoride”. Some of the largest anti fluoride political action groups do not tell people how to detoxify fluoride, but perhaps they try to avoid getting into further controversy.
I’ve been on the “high iodine” program from the iodine doctors since Feb 7th, 2016. It is now April 30th, 2020, so just over 4 years now. I started boron a month earlier, so, in theory, I’ve been detoxing fluoride for 4 years now.
My notes on iodine and boron:
So I am familar with the work by the “iodine doctors” Abraham, Brownstein and Flechas.
I even critique it in my iodine note above, and in my copper note below:
Given how so few people mention iodine and even fewer mention boron as fluoride detox agents, I thought I was doing far better than average. I also read that tamarind reportedly detoxes fluoride, but never noticed much when drinking it at Mexican restaurants.
Tiny backstory on our fluoride exposures: My wife, Jennifer Cosper Hommel, took Prozac for 7 years, ending it 10 years ago. Prozac contains fluoride.
I used to be an alcoholic, and drank a lot of red wine, and I loved to eat chicken and dried fruits and grapes. All sources of fluoride. As an American I’ve also had the typical fluoride treatments from the dentist as a child and teenager, and I had a fluorosis spot on a tooth. I’ve also had full body arthritis develop during the time I drank red wine. I just turned 50. Sober 8.5 years now.
Jennifer has been taking iodine for 10 years. And together, we took over 2000 mg of iodine a day for a year, proving that iodine is not dangerous. That’s mg, not mcg, no typo. So, 2 million mcg. The RDA is 150 mcg. So, 13,333 times more than the RDA. We took it in the form of about half and half Lugol’s 2% and SSKI, or super saturated Potassium Iodide. The SSKI gives about 70 mg of iodine per drop, so about ten drops three times a day is 2100 mg. We also took Lugol’s 2%, at 50 mg doses, three times a day, giving another 150 mg a day. We also took 1/8th teaspoon borax, which gives over 50 mg of boron, three times a day, for 150+ mg of boron. And a lot of other minerals: sulfur, salt, potassium, copper, zinc, molybdenum, chromium, vanadium, magnesium, calcium, silica, etc.
We thought that got us fully detoxed of fluoride after a year of that. Now, I don’t think so, because of what just happened, which is the occasion for this article.
THE BIG OCCASION: Here is what happened on Monday, April 27th.
Jennifer was having just a bit of spots around her torso, and a bit of acne, like three bumps on her back. We are aware of “The Hidden Cause of Acne” by Melissa Gallico. Iodine is also recommended from that source. So, I rubbed CBD oil (oil prevents iodine from burning/drying out the skin) and then 5% Lugols all over her torso. Yes, that’s always fun!
About 4 hours later, and Jennifer is having a crying spell. Again. But terrible. And some of my “go to” minerals and vitamins did not work! 2 Magnesium pills and 2 B complex pills, and no boost in mood. Yet those two, and iodine, are indicated for depression. What’s going on? Why is it not working? Is it situational? True, I’m not making any money. PS you can donate to me here…. https://paypal.me/JasonHommel
She wants alcohol. Something to boost her mood. I’m ready. I see she is unhappy. I recommend Vodka with tomato juice, it’s the healthiest alcohol I can think of and I believe in freedom, if that’s what she wants… but I do mention I don’t want to be tempted, so she ultimately declines. She suggests a drink at Sonic. Dr. Pepper. OK. I dodged a bullet, right?
I remember one time, when we were driving across the country, we had a soda at about 2pm when we were really tired. We put in iodine, and took copper and B vitamins. An hour later, we were both filled with energy, and ridiculously happy and in an upbeat mood.
Seeing she had to be full, if not overful on iodine, I suggested copper and B vitamins. Not much. 2 x 2mg pills of copper. 2 x 2 B complexes again.
15 minutes later, mood totally lifted. She remarks, “It’s like I’m not in control of my own brain!” Because the positive change was so drastic.
Wow. What did we discover!? What is going on? So this caused me to start thinking and researching, again, more deeply than ever.
Is it fluoride detox, but more effective than just the iodine? Did the iodine on the skin cause more fluoride to be released from the tissues than could be excreted? Is the copper helping? The B vitamins? The soda?
I never heard of nor read about copper detoxing fluoride. But she already had B vitamins. So, it’s all pointing to copper.
The first thing I googled was “copper fluoride wiki”.
Several discoveries. 1. Copper does bond to fluoride. 2. It is reportedly water soluble. !!! I’m thinking if it’s water soluble, it can come out in the urine!
Copper(II) fluoride is slightly soluble in water, but starts to decompose when it is in hot water, producing basic F− and Cu(OH) ions. [reference needed]”
- Toxicity is unknown. “Toxicity
There is little specific information on the toxicity of Copper(II) fluoride. However, copper and fluoride can both be toxic individually when consumed.”
If the toxicity is unknown, perhaps the copper is making the fluoride safe to excrete, or safer to excrete? Hard to say with so little information from just that. Just a guess. That was my first guess, but after a lot of research over a few days, now I think that’s not the full story.
The reason why not is that copper causes nausea, and that copper is reportedly toxic to the liver. Fluoride also causes nausea. Maybe copper is commonly causing nausea in most people, because most people have fluoride exposure, and upon ingestion, fluoride starts binding right away to copper in the stomach, and it’s the fluoride that is the problem of nausea in the stomach from copper?
Maybe copper is “toxic” to the liver because it carries fluoride there, and it’s the fluoride that’s the problem, not the copper. The reason for that is that in the literature, there is one man who took 30-60mg of copper for 3 years, and needed a new liver. On the other hand, there is a man who reportedly took 20,000 mg of copper every other day for 4 months, and he did not damage his liver. So, how is that possible if copper is toxic? It could be the fluoride, and it could be that the man on the very high dose of copper got past the fluoride detox stage.
So, next, I wanted to see how stable and how safe Copper Fluoride is. There is also this link:
Copper(I) fluoride or cuprous fluoride is an inorganic compound with the chemical formula CuF. Its existence is uncertain. It was reported in 1933 to have a sphalerite-type crystal structure. Modern textbooks state that CuF is not known, since fluorine is so electronegative that it will always oxidise copper to its +2 oxidation state. Complexes of CuF such as [(Ph3P)3CuF] are, however, known and well characterised.
That jumped out at me. Ok. No copper (1) fluoride. But with PH, which is phosphorous, it’s more stable?
Phosphorous is in SODA!
Sure enough, it’s in both Dr. Pepper and Coke, at about the same amounts 50mg.
Phosphorous, I have long known, helps to dissolve calcium. Where does fluoride go? To calcium!
And there is another stable copper/fluoride molecule, with nitrogen. “Unlike other copper(I) halides like copper(I) chloride, copper(I) fluoride tends to disproportionate into copper(II) fluoride and copper in a one-to-one ratio at ambient conditions, unless it is stabilised through complexation as in the example of [Cu(N2)F].”
I assume, without even looking it up, the body has plenty of nitrogen available to make a stable Copper/fluoride/nitrogen molecule.
Next, I went looking for studies on fluoride and copper. I found a study on pigs that says fluoride lowers iron, copper, zinc, and manganese. And that this stunts growth of the pigs.
So, this suggests that excess fluoride carries those minerals (iron, copper, zinc, and manganese) out of pig bodies. Fluoride may carry out other minerals in addition to those, but those were the ones studied in that study.
Or stated another way as another possibility, those minerals (and/or other minerals), if they are in excess, could be available to carry out fluoride!
My next thought was that if copper could bind with fluoride, then all of the things attributed to “copper toxicity” could well be simply toxicity of “copper fluoride”, and not “copper toxicity”.
Also, I have previously identified many of the symptoms of copper toxicity as simply zinc deficiency and vitamin C deficiency. See my copper note, above. Reportedly, too much copper can cause bleeding, which is counterintuitive, since copper deficiency also causes bleeding. However, to prevent bleeding, the body needs sound collagen formation. And the body needs both vitamin C and copper to form collagen. Copper, as it turns out, can be chelated out of the body with Vitamin C and Zinc. (Vitamin C lowers copper levels: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/6837490 ) Conversely, too much copper may well lower vitamin C and zinc. So too much copper may well mimic vitamin C scurvey, and zinc deficiencies, if too much copper could lower vitamin C and zinc. But another mechanism of action might be that copper binds to fluoride, and fluoride causes bleeding?
Again, copper toxicity could also simply be fluoride toxicity. So, where copper goes, fluoride may attach and follow. If that is the case, it’s possible that copper has a stronger attachment to fluoride than calcium does to fluoride. I don’t know the answer to that question yet.
How strongly does fluoride bind to copper?
Fluoridated water will eat through copper pipes!
Again, what if fluoridated water is carrying copper into the brain, but it’s really the fluoride doing the damage, in the form of copper fluoride, and then researchers falsely blame copper, and not fluoride? I already have an article on this potential bias against copper, rather than against fluoride!
What other associations are there between copper and fluoride?
Copper is said to be great for arthritis, and the connective tissues, and for building collagen. Fluoride is said to cause arthritis and joint problems…
What else is good for the bones? Boron and Silica. I already have the article on how boron detoxes fluorides. What about silica?
The CDC mentions fluorosilicates. Silica is a buffer that binds to fluoride, that prevents copper pipe erosion!
“The most common forms of fluoride for approximately 92% of the drinking water that is fluoridated are fluorosilicates, as either fluorosilicic acid or sodium fluorosilicate. Using fluorosilicates to fluoridate drinking water adds silica, a corrosion inhibitor, to the water and increases the silicates available for stabilizing the pipe surface, which contributes to reduced corrosion.”
So would silica also detox fluorides? Or even do it better than copper?
The first time Jennifer ever took diamotaceous earth (silica powder) she had very bad kidney pain, and from the above and below, we now believe it was likely the fluoride. We fixed her kidneys in one day with just under a teaspoon of baking soda in water. After that first time, the silica powder never hurt her.
One silica atom appears to capture up to 6 Fluoride atoms. Flechas, of the high iodine protocol, promotes silica as a supplement, too. I don’t remember if he mentions that it detoxes fluorides.
Fluoride is in the bones.
Iron is said to need both copper and b12 (cobalt) to form new blood cells–In the bone marrow.
Fluoride is said to go to the bones. Fluoride also binds with calcium, iron, copper, and cobalt. I forget my source that fluoride binds to cobalt.
Jimmy Pittacus writes to me: “Fluoride bonds with virtually anything for several reasons.” He sent his source for that: https://www.acsh.org/news/2016/02/14/fluorine-element-hell
I responded: “What are the things that fluoride binds to the strongest? Which is the most inert? Which is the easiest for the body to excrete, and why?”
Jimmy Responded: very strong with calcium and magnesium… considered insoluble, however there is always a tiny amount of solubility even for the insolubles.
Jimmy Pittacus: that is the thing, most fluoride salts are insoluble because of the covalent nature of the bonds, and most all iodine compounds are soluble because of its weak ionic bonding.
Jimmy Pittacus, by the way, is an expert on iodine, and sells at very strong 46% Lugol’s solution of it at buyiodine.com
Next, going back to “copper toxicity causing liver damage” I wondered, does fluoride particularly damage the liver? Found out yes.
Fluoride may diminish kidney and liver function in adolescents
This is interesting. Because boron, on rare occasions, is reported to cause “kidney pain”. I believe I mention that in my boron note. At 1/4 teaspoon per liter, as reported online. I had theorized that it was the fluoride. Perhaps so. Because I asked kidney specialist Suzanne Humphries if boron would hurt the kidneys, and she said no, boron would help clean out the kidneys.
So, next, I had to review my own article on copper, with my new lense of “copper binds with and can detox fluoride”.
Several things jumped out at me immediately.
- The supposed toxic effects of copper do not relate at all to its functions in the body. The supposed toxic effects of copper are a widely diverse list and are not the same from source to source, or are highly inconsistent.
Diverse? I read that before with fluoride, it causes 181 diverse bad conditions in the body. I had the list in my iodine note.
- Copper toxic studies and reports appear to be either case studies, or correlation studies, not causal studies. And often, “copper toxicity” studies use copper in the water as the source of copper. But copper in the water is likely there because fluoride is corroding the pipes, and it’s really copper(2)fluoride they are studying, not copper supplements.
- There is no explanation as to why one man needed a liver transplant from 30 to 60 mg of copper over 3 years, while another man survived 20,000 mg of copper several times a week for 4 months with no liver problems. Copper is obviously not the toxic agent here.
So. Again. Looking at this with “copper detoxes fluoride” lenses…
- 74% of Americas water supply is fluoridated. We all eat fluoride in many foods unknowingly as fluoride is in animal feed and used as a fungicide on dried fruits, but not listed as an ingredient. Its in grapes, raisins, and CA wines.
- In other words, what “Average Americans” find with copper, if copper strongly attracts fluoride, is likely going to be a fluoride detox reaction since the Average American has fluoride exposure.
If fluoride binds with copper, it will go where copper goes. Copper goes to the liver.
Next question. Does fluoride harm the liver? I just posted a study that it does.
Copper goes to the nerves. Copper restores the myelin sheath, and helps increase neurotransmitters. Copper is associated with alzheimers.
Question!? If copper is good for the nerves in two ways, by restoring the myelin sheath and by increasing neurotransmitters, then how can copper cause Alzheimer’s which would be from nerve degeneration, not from increased nerve health?
The accusation does not fit. Unless copper attracts fluoride, and unless fluoride is causing the damage because the copper/fluoride is not being properly excreted. It should be excreted by taking water. But if water is the source of the copper/fluoride, then that particular form of water could not excrete it, but would be continually supplying it.
(I aleady debunked the notion that copper is the cause of Alzheimer’s). So, its likely the fluoride, which harvard researchers shows lowers IQ, that’s the cause of the problem. Copper may well be carrying fluoride into the brain. Especially without additional fluoride detoxification minerals such as iodine, boron, calcium, iron, magnesium, zinc, silica or cobalt, along with the copper, and with distilled uncontaminated water. With those other minerals that the general population does not take, copper/fluorides could cause a vastly different outcome than copper supplements alone.
I’ll say that again in two different ways:
- If 74% to 99% of America is fluoride toxic, then studies on Average Americans with high copper in their brains (or inadvertently drink copper fluoride) are going to inadvertently be studying how copper reacts with fluoride.
- If less than 1% of Americans take iodine and boron, then studies on “Americans who have copper in the brain”, who would be ingesting toxic fluoride with their copper, are going to have very different copper/fluoride detox experiences than the very few and rare Americans who take plenty of other fluoride detoxing minerals, such as me, my wife, and my readers who do the same.
Next, what does a mainstream pro fluoride source say about the antifluoride people?
Fluoride advocates admit that fluoride often causes abdominal pain, nausea and vomiting!
Minerals that bind to fluoride, such as copper and zinc and boron and iodine and magnesium and calcium, are also said to cause “abdominal pain, nausea and vomiting”, which I have also directly experienced. Perhaps it’s the fluoride, flocking to the minerals in the stomach, and not the minerals themselves, that cause the nausea?
“It’s true that too much fluoride can be dangerous — one complication is skeletal fluorosis, which causes stiffening and pain of the joints and bones or abdominal pain, nausea and vomiting — but those effects only occur with prolonged exposure to a far higher level of fluoride than is found in public water systems in the U.S., experts say. “
Science says fluoride in water is good for kids. So why are these towns banning it?
Yes, but water is not the only source of fluoride exposure in Americans. It’s in toothpaste, frying pans, goretex waterproof fabric, dental floss, etc. Two years ago, I threw out some $250 black ecco boots, because they were made with goretex. This was still a painful decision, because I liked the boots. More painful than throwing out all my non stick $12 frying pains. But those boots tended to give my feet rashes. I thought maybe that the leather simply housed a fungus I could not get rid of. Nope. It was the fluoride in the goretex. I could not even bring myself to donate them. Why cause pain to the next guy. Trash. So sad. Plus, fluoride is in plenty of foods I mentioned earlier, grapes, wine, raisins, all dried fruit, chicken, and black tea.
So the experts that say levels of fluoride in the water should not cause problems are wrong. Maybe even lying on purpose, because of all the other sources that exist. Not to mention dental applications directly.
In chicken feed, fluoride is at 130 parts per million. In the water, fluoride is supposed to be less than 0.7 parts per million. So soup made with chicken bones, or chicken livers would be a very bad thing to eat.
Fluoride is also in black tea. Not so much in herbal tea, but I don’t know much about that.
Next, what do the anti Fluoride activists say?
Not a Single “Randomized Controlled Trial” Has Ever Proven Fluoridation Works.
I facebook messaged the Fluoride Action Network. I asked them how best to detox fluoride. Their response was less than I expected, but they were happy to receive a dialog with me about what I’m learning about copper on the subject. Their initial reply:
“The best approach is to avoid fluoride and restrict exposure as much as possible. Also check to see if you’re deficient in iodine. If so, increase it in your diet, as people who have iodine deficiencies are at greater risk of thyroid issues due to fluoride exposure.”
“Lastly, studies have shown that curcumin can reduce oxidative stress caused by fluoride.”
And this began a constructive dialog.
I concluded by saying I would send them this note on copper and fluoride.
Curcumin attenuates neurotoxicity induced by fluoride: An in vivo evidence
Next, I found a study in their database that shows that fluoride exposure in humans lowers copper levels, and other minerals, by about 10%.
Serum copper, zinc, and magnesium levels in patients with chronic fluorosis
Next, I went back to the copper (1) fluoride wiki article and looked up phosphorous, it appears to stablise copper fluoride.
Coordination stabilised copper(I) flouride. Crystal and molecular structure of fluorotris(triphenylphosphine)copper(I)·ethanol (1/2), Cu(PPh3)3, P·2EtOH
Is this why we felt better taking copper with soda that contains phosphorous? The article appears to be unrelated, being about inorganic chemistry. But you never know. It might relate.
Next, I found another inorganic chemistry article that was extremely hard to read. From 1956.
The Stability of Metal Halide Complexes in Aqueous Solution (Nickel, Copper, and Zinc)
They appeared to conclude that the copper fluoride and zinc fluoride bond is ten times as strong as the copper chloride and zinc chloride bonds, page 7, second to last paragraph. It appears they did not study the other halogens, iodine or bromine.
Next, I found you can actually buy copper fluoride. $20 grams for $109.
As an industrial chemical, it’s primary use appears to be for the battery manufacturing industry.
Next, I found an article on how to detox from fluoride poisoning, in dental settings where two children were noted to have died from drinking a fluoride rinse that they were supposed to spit out.
Diagnosis and treatment of acute fluoride toxicity, 1985
They suggest calcium. Or milk and/or ice cream.
“At levels less than 5 mg/kg, the treatment for fluoride toxicity is to give calcium orally to relieve gastrointestinal symptoms. 9 (Milk or even ice cream may be less traumatic to a frightened child.)”
“Overdoses greater than 15 mg/kg require immediate stomach emptying, gastric lavage, and slow intravenous administration of 10 ml of 10% calcium gluconate solution.”
“Because the elimination of fluoride is almost exclusively renal, 12 adequate urine output should be maintained with use of diuretics.”
Ah. Drink clean distilled water.
At this point, I have to mention things that did not make it into my notes.
Fluoride bonded to calcium in the bones are dissolved with sulfur. Not sure which kind of sulfur. Not sure if the body can convert MSM sulfur into the right kind to start the process.
From this I learned that fluoride bonds to calcium to form the natural mineral, fluorite, which is glassy and transparent, and beautifully colored.
Google images of fluorite crystals for sale, including “wands“.
Fluorspar (calcium fluoride) mining is a $30 billion industry
Fluorspar: Critical Mineral, Burgeoning Canadian Industry
Interestingly, the Linus Pauling article on copper does not mention fluoride.
Back to the human experience.
After studying this, my wife and I ate a dinner of ice cream! Yum, right? And we took supplements of copper, cayenne pepper, cal/mag/zinc, and magnesium. Then we had chile. And Orange juice. And cheese. We were so full. And she got the burps really bad. (Note, she is a lady and does not typically burp, so this was disheartening and super uncomfortable when it was happening.) I had a mild case of burps. Any ideas why?
The next morning, we tried the Dr. Pepper, copper, and B vitamins, with breakfast. And it was just fine, no burps.
On that fuel, I complied my notes into this article.
Yesterday, I decided one last experiment. Yesterday, I decided to rub my torso with CBD oil and 5% Lugol’s iodine, just like Jennifer had a few days earlier. Like on her, I probably put 6 dropper fulls of iodine all over myself, so maybe 600mg of iodine on the skin. I wanted to check to see if her reaction was due to “iodine excess”. I wanted to see if I would get depressed just as she had. Or any other symptom. But I had no reaction. My mood was fine, no jitters, no extra energy, not tired, nothing. I don’t think I had any fluoride detox reaction to painting myself with iodine. My hands burned slightly from the iodine, and that was all that was unusual.
Copper is not toxic. It’s the fluoride.
Copper in water seems to be a particularly bad source of copper; it’s likely contaminated with fluoride; it’s the fluoride that strips copper from the pipes.
Most Americans are toxic with fluoride. 74% of the water is contaminated, much of the food, and many common products are also contaminated, such as goretex and non stick frying pans.
Comparing people with fluorosis with average Americans is a poor comparison if Average Americans are also typically carrying fluoride in their bodies. The half life of fluoride in the body is about 20 years if it is not being actively detoxed.
My wife has been detoxing fluoride with iodine for 10 years, and just got a reaction, probably several reactions, detoxing fluoride.
I’ve been detoxing fluoride for 4 years, and I might be able to detox some more, but it’s hard to say. My back acne went away right as I started the 2000mg/day of potassium iodide, and my health improved significantly when I added far more copper, as indicated 2 years ago in my note on copper.
Since fluoride lowers the baseline values for so many of the minerals, this explains why it can be hard to just supplement to get them to normal levels, if the body’s fluoride stores are continually lowering the good minerals.
Minerals need to be looked at, not only for their power to fix and eliminate mineral deficiencies, but also for their power to detoxify fluoride, and other toxic metals.
It could be that fluoride is particuarly hard to detox, unless one gets an abundance of many or all of the minerals needed to complete the full fluoride detoxification process, which probably needs to be studied a lot more.
It could be this way for many other toxic metals too, like aluminum, mercury, lead, arsenic, etc.
The nausea from minerals might not be from the minerals, but from the fluoride.
It will take a substantial amount of research and trial and error to help determine some of the best, or more optimal ways to detox fluoride.
The process might start with MSM sulfur, or DMSO and then iodine, and all the minerals, and concluding with calcium and/or silica.
From my experience, I cannot take all the good minerals at once, or else I will vomit. I wonder if that is simply a fluoride detoxification reaction of too much fluoride heading to the stomach too quickly.
Some of the best fluoride detoxing minerals, in my opinion, if I had to rank them, based on the knowledge I currently posess, and just going from my gut feel, would be:
- copper (plus phosphorous)
- calcium (plus magnesium)
I could easily be wrong. I’m just guessing based on my very limited knowledge and experience.
Iodine, boron and silica will all hold multiple fluoride atoms. Iodine can hold 3, 4, or 7 fluoride atoms on one iodine atom. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iodine_fluoride
Maybe this means iodine, and boron and silica, will “stir up” fluoride or carry it around, dropping off some as it circulates? Who knows, just a guess.
Copper appears to hold only 2. Copper might work better with phosphorous, as from a coke or Dr. Pepper.
Calcium might hold fluoride the most tightly, but we want to get fluoride out of the bones. Not sure if more calcium helps or hurts this process.
Copper might work particularly well with iodine. Copper does bind to iodine. But what happens exactly inside the body with elements, who knows for sure, the body is a very complex place.
I went looking to see if there is a known stable copper/iodine/fluoride molecule, and could not find one.
11 Powerful Supplements to Detoxify Your Pineal Gland, Boost Brain Power and Increase Vitality
- Activator X (grass fed butter)
5: Fulvic Acid
6: Chaga Mushrooms ? (copper provides melanin)
7: Raw Cacao
9: Raw Apple Cider Vinegar (malic, and citric acid)
11: Green Superfoods
Vitamin C does not help detox fluoride, but might help kidneys
Selenium + Zinc
Calcium + Magnesium
Jimmy Pitticus sells iodine at buyiodine.com